churches are not to be involved in this kind of thing (protesting against something). The job of the church is to preach the great commission, and Christ only gave His established churches that authority, The Good News of salvation through Him , and live daily by His example. We are not to get involved with the things of the world. Christ said that His people are born in this world but are not of it, meaning , the things the world does which is mostly against what Christ taught are not to be lived for or with. There is a great need for Churches to preach against sin and the need for repentance of its members today.

@william clark
re: ... preach the great commission...live daily by His example.

is this the great commission of the old or new testament...didn't Jesus repudiate much of the old...especially the old-T violence...eg;

He replaced 'an eye for an eye' with turn the other cheek, forgive 70x7, and love yo neighbor...

old-T allowed Israelites to hate their enemies and sometimes command them to slaughter them...Jesus said, “love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you” http://reknew.org/2009/07/jesus-repudiation-of-old-testament-violence-2/

also

raises the question, which version (old/new) should be taken literally...

all one needs to do is listen at our President telling people lies day after day.And other people who we elect to serve us and do the job we sent them to washington to do. I have never seen oir heard so much hate and lies coming out of this group ofpeople in washington on all my 75 years of life, as today. Even the Black people of congress in their cacus said they have let obama get away with all his failed policies because he is black,the unemployment rte for blacks is at 14% but not a word to obama about it , the president of their cacus said we would be marching around the white house if that was a white president.(unquote) Its our "pride" that keeps us from calling obama to task over all his failed policies. Folks this is what our country has come to today.....they all need to be fired now, every last one of them .

Speaking of hate and lies, how have you been william? I see you're still posting lies without citation, way to accurately represent what we can only assume is the prevailing attitude of the GOP.

If ANY of you reasonable GOP supporters want to counter the lies the most vocal of your "teammates" by all means, here is the forum.

re: 'Speaking of hate and lies,...'

is the 9th commandment included in the great commission (see above)...just wondering...

Ninth Commandment: Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour. (Exodus 20:16)

perhaps some BO-hater christian could explain false witness and neighbor...

either they have ref/links (tho not provided) to prove NOT false witness...or dont consider our president their neighbor...oror

are hypocrites...

all of the above, maybe...

The article was written to inform people about the new law (soon to be implemented) involving picketing of military funerals, for the most part. I agree with you that everyone should just get along, but do not jump on PATCH. They are doing a great job bringing the news to us. And I enjoy reading the responses from people. Sometimes you will see a side of an issue that you may not have thought of before. And yes, it still falls under freedom of speech.

I agree with Stanley that The CFA was not really a free speech "issue". NO ONE said they did not have a right to express themselves! Customers have a right to buy, or not buy, a product based upon whatever criteria they choose, including what the company does with those profits.
Westboro Baptist Church demonstrations are a free speech issue.
The poll is poorly worded. I hate being given a binary choice which requires using some else's words, so I usually don't vote in them.

@D. Dantzler: '... do not jump on PATCH. They are doing a great job bringing the news to us [...] And yes, it still falls under freedom of speech.

agree PATCH is doing a great job...sorry if my comment seemed to 'jump on'...not my intent.

re: 'Sometimes you will see a side of an issue that you may not have thought of before'

indeed i do...thanks PATCH and contributors for enlightenment/education...

[...]

opine: free speech is a distraction to pro/con same sex marriage discussion...the obvious right to free speech oft dominates the issue of legal/moral (separation of church/state) re same sex marriage. (apologies for repeat opine)

stanley: you ought to leave Holy Scripture alone, because you do not understand them at all. The issue is Free speech and the right to give ones personal opinion and the Commands of God concerning such wicked conduct by the sodomite and the lesbian to society. "NO" we all can't get along, not if one is a true believer in God and Christ and is living according to His commands with the help of the Holy Spirit. We aren't to have anything to do with the children of darkness, no fellowship or any other type of agreement with their ways . God condemns the Sodomite and the unbeliever period. And the Christian is to hate what God hates , and the christian is not to condone what the sodomite community does including their sexual lust towards each other.God and Christ says and teaches that these people are "Unclean" and they "Defile " the land on which they walk and live. Christians are not to compromise the truth of God's Word for any reason. Nor are Christians to tolerate what these people do or say . In Holy Scripture . God says that "He hates all workers of Iniquity" And God also said in scripture that "the unbeliever is condemned already" an Unbeliever is one who rejects God's Word on what is sin and evil and wicked, and lives his own way and hates God , and also all Christians who stand against them, and stand for Gods ways by Faith.

This is where your religious beliefs create more division, will. I don't find your interpretations and misquotings of the bible to indicate you know that book very well. God does not hate people, wm. Not any of us. God hates the sin that people commit, but not the people themselves. Go back and read Psalms 5 (where your quote comes from) and re-evaluate it.

@William Clark:
I'll admit it's been a while since I read all the Gospels, but i don't recall Jesus ever telling anyone to hate anyone else. He said a whole lot about loving each other, turning the other cheek and not judging one another though.

Let me tell you how it will be,
There’s one for you, nineteen for me,
‘Cause I’m the Taxman,
Yeah, I’m the Taxman.
Should five per cent appear too small,
Be thankful I don’t take it all.
‘Cause I’m the Taxman,
Yeah, I’m the Taxman.

(If you drive a car ), I’ll tax the street,
(If you try to sit ), I’ll tax your seat,
(If you get too cold ), I’ll tax the heat,
(If you take a walk ), I’ll tax your feet.
Taxman.

‘Cause I’m the Taxman,
Yeah, I’m the Taxman.
Don’t ask me what I want it for
(Haha! Mister Wilson!)
If you don’t want to pay some more
(Haha! Mister Heath!),
‘Cause I’m the Taxman,
Yeah, I’m the Taxman.

Now my advice for those who die, (Taxman!)
Declare the pennies on your eyes, (Taxman!)
‘Cause I’m the Taxman,
Yeah, I’m the Taxman.
And you’re working for no-one but me,
(Taxman).

Now this is the story all about how
My life got flipped, turned upside down
And I'd like to take a minute just sit right there
I'll tell you how I became the prince of a town called Bel-Air

In West Philadelfia born and raised
On the playground where I spent most of my days
Chilling out, maxing, relaxing all cool
And all shooting some b-ball outside of the school
When a couple of guys said "we're up in no good"
Started making trouble in my neighbourhood
I got in one little fight and my mom got scared
And said "you're moving with your aunt and uncle in Bel-Air"

I begged and pleaded with her the other day
But she packed my suitcase and sent me on my way
She gave me a kissin' and she gave me my ticket
I put my walkman on and said I might as well kick it

First class, yo this is bad,
Drinking orange juice out of a champagne glass
Is this what the people of Bel-Air livin' like,
Hmm this might be alright!

I whistled for a cab and when it came near the
Licensplate said "Fresh" and had a dice in the mirror
If anything I could say that this cab was rare
But I thought now forget it, yo home to Bel-Air

I pulled up to a house about seven or eight
And I yelled to the cabby "Yo, home smell you later"
Looked at my kingdom I was finally there
To settle my throne as the prince of Bel-Air

God's Word is not bigotry as many of you state... Proverbs 6:16, These six things doth the Lord hate: a proud look, a lying tongue,and hands that shed innocent blood, An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren. "it must be remembered that all these are within the person as a sin and the Lord just doesn't hate the deed , but also the person that does these things. So , to say God doesn't hate anyone is just not correct within scripture. God hates all who hate HIm. that is why God created hell and the lake of Fire, for those who hate Him and go against His Will. God also hates those who hate and demean His people . You will find many places in the Holy Bible where God uses the word Hate towards man and his sin and iniquity. Both in the Old and New Testament. Many also misquote Christ about Judging one-another, Matt. 7:1 is not a blanket command on not ever Judging others. that tells us how we are to Judge others . Because in John 7:24 Christ commands us to "Judge Righteous Judgment" not to judge according to outward appearance. In other words , we are to use God's Word to Judge all things, not our own opinions. And the other statement used by so many people to justify their sin of homosexuality, is "Love thy neighbor as thyself".....That is speaking about thy brother or sister in Christ not some unbeliever down the street. It is thy neighbor in the faith.

I don't see "God hates fags" in any of those six. And if we're not supposed to use our opinions, then why do so many apply their own opinions of God's word?

all BO-hater christians should read WC's ref...

'Proverbs 6:16, These six things doth the Lord hate: a proud look, a lying tongue...A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren...'

if BO-haters are not speaking lies and sowing discord, they should provide refs/links to statements they make...

re: ' "Love thy neighbor as thyself".....That is speaking about thy brother or sister in Christ not some unbeliever down the street. It is thy neighbor in the faith.'

review the parable of the good samaritan for interpretation of neighbor...

'Finally, a Samaritan comes by. Samaritans and Jews generally despised each other, but the Samaritan helps the injured man. Jesus is described as telling the parable in response to a question regarding the identity of the "neighbour" which Leviticus 19:18 says should be loved.'
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_Good_Samaritan

also

But I say to you who hear, love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, (luke 6:27)

are those who mis quote Jesus false teacher...ie,

...false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies...

eg, 'destructive heresies'

That is speaking about thy brother or sister in Christ not some unbeliever down the street. It is thy neighbor in the faith.

@Bill1776: '...a constitutional right to be there...'

gawd find myself in an unbelievable position...agreeing w/ bill1773...OTOH

this might be the equivalent to yelling fire in a theater...depending on the attitudes/tempers of those present...whether it is a peaceful or violent demonstration...

then we cant legislate human nature or cure stupidly...so the right to free speech trumps unacceptable behavior.

How do you feel about the "ground zero mosque" Bill?

This isn't the equivalent to yelling fire in a theater. Westboro for all their obvious faults are tremendous protesters; they know the law and they know how to use it against those that would protest them. I do wish we could revoke their tax exempt status. People like SDR may support subsidizing hate but it pisses me off.

@JoSCh: '...support subsidizing hate...'

we cant cherry pick groups to which we grantee constitutional free speech rights...those rights are guaranteed to 'the good, the bad, and the ugly'...eg, those 'subsidizing hate'

not that anyone cares (or should care)...but i am more comfortable supporting the ground zero mosque than the westboro un-true baptists.

in any event, wish we could/would address issues vice distractions...the Chick issue is, plain and simply, homophobia...not free speech rights...lets discuss, eg:

*reasons, other than biblical, for homophobia...
*is homosexuality detrimental to society
*maybe related: is pornography detrimental
*is homophobia compatible with christian love...
*who should judge: the Spirit or true baptists
*limits of free speech. yelling fire. what else
*etcetc

By "subsidizing hate" I mean granting them tax exempt status. Tax everyone who makes money. I never mentioned or supported suppressing their or anybodies right to free speech, the opposite in fact. Let the racists and hypocrites advertise what they are instead of hiding it.

@JoSCh: '...I mean granting them tax exempt status...'

think i got that...but "subsidizing hate", in my mind, goes much further than tax exemptions...eg, supporting hate by silence...acquiescing to the haters...pandering to the haters to win elections...

to the tax issue:

why current system so complicated...just a percentage of income (all money earned)...perhaps churches/charities could be granted a lower percentage...

I agree in principle, but that isn't what subsidized means.

The tax system is so convoluted because it makes it easier to cheat. I agree, progressive individual taxes based on how much you make, something like 3% to 50%, regardless of income source. Quit subsidizing home ownership and families, both are categories I'm in fwiw. Tax business similarly but with a much lower top rate and eliminate write offs. The "cost of doing business" should be borne by the business, not the taxpayer.

@JoSCh: '... that isn't what subsidized means.

i misused 'subsidize' and probably missed your purpose in using it...i was thinking more of aiding, supporting, condoning, the haters...but agree we should NOT 'subsidize' HATE w/ tax breaks...

course i could, as did humpty dumpty's, say: 'When I use a word, it means exactly what I mean it to mean, no more and no less.'

i agree with your tax ideas...and bet many other do as well...lets do it...it could be eased in (eg, eliminate a loophole and decrease a rate) over say 5 years.

BTW and off topic: universal health care is being eased in...which i am all for...

We ought to obey God rather than man. amen. we must remember that man has in times past used God's Laws of Moral Good to hold man accountable of his deeds in this society, however, now man has crossed over the line and replaced God's Laws for man too mans sinful laws for society, doesn't work and never will work with God or Man . When you remove God's ways from a society there is no more room for Good and what is Normal and Natural, just plain wickedness and iniquity abound.This is what we are seeing today and for our future and Children.

@alice bea [AB]a: '...they really arent helping our case...'

what is 'our case'...

would AB provide reference to substantiate statements in the post...eg, that a large majority disagrees with homosexuality on a moral or biblical level...and that there are lawsuits all over the country...

re: usually the owners feel that if they provided services for such ceremonies...etc

not sure any owners felt they had to provide services for such ceremonies...assume AB refers to same sex marriage...can AB (anyone) provide anecdotal (or otherwise) evidence...or explain what ceremonies are referenced...

usually the Westboro bigots feel that if they didn't protest military funerals they would be giving aide to something they believe is morally wrong and or going against their faith

If you believe that trampling basic decency and rights for beliefs is ok then you believe that trampling basic decency and rights for beliefs is ok. Embrace Westboro, they're just Christians exercising your beliefs. Hell, they're doing it better than you.

Society should never condone civil unions or same sex marriage . we are now trying to destroy the church and ones faith and belief to pander to the wicked as God calls them. because man makes a law to give special rights to two men to have sex legally and to give them the same benifits as the normal couple , one man one woman in marriage , shows you how far we have degenerated in such short time. This is how societies destroy themselves in a short time .

If the public acknowledging two peoples love for each other destroys your faith and destroys your church then they probably weren't worthwhile or all that strong to begin with william.

I don't think homosexuals and muslims have replaced blacks as the objects of their hate. Augment is the word that most accurately describes it; for the most part they still hate the blacks as much as ever.

He is preaching the gospel. Your gospel. That he uses signs and protests as his medium makes no difference, it's written and spoken word. There is no teaching in the Bible that people use the TV or radio or internet to spread your message, aren't those legitimate methods to communicate it?

Why do you put a space between the last letter of a sentence and the punctuation? Why don't you capitalize the first word in a sentence but then go on to capitalize pastor and minister when they clearly aren't proper nouns? The world may never know...

I can answer your last question though, low attendance (read low profits), enlightenment and evolution. Sorry bro, progress happens.

Karen, I go to Old Fort Baptist. Every Monday night, the church uses all 4 of its buildings to: serve a meal to whoever comes, then has 2-4 doctors, 1-2 dentists and an optometrist who all volunteer their time; someone giving massages and haircuts, job and financial counselors; plus a clothes closet and food pantry, all staffed by volunteers with donated items. It is a beautiful thing. Many churches either have something similar or volunteer at churches like ours. You are wrong about a lot of what you said, but especially this one.
Americans (and especially Republicans, you can google this easily) are the most giving people in the world. Who shows up first after any disaster? If America is so hated worldwide, why are we the first to get called, and almost always the first to respond? Things to think about!

@Linda Ensor: 'especially Republicans, are the most giving people in the world.'

true of many indivauls and some churches...NOT as a political philosophy promoted by trickle UP, voodoo, political policies...and there are many 'sunday go to meeting' hypocrites which possible lead many karenH'conclusion:

'This is why I stopped going to church. Never found one which actually cared and acted upon what Jesus actually said.' [Karen H]

the scribes/pharisees are still with us...for 2000 yrs, they have not heeded Jesus:

'Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.' Matthew 23:23-24

'Many Republicans believe theirs is the party of Jesus Christ, but, in practice, they are the party of an atheist, Hollywood intellectual named Ayn Rand...Republicans act as if their approach to government is somehow part of a divine plan, but their philosophy contains very little of Jesus and a lot of Ayn Rand' http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DDRIGHTS/message/8346

...Republicans are the most giving people in the world.

It really depends on how you define charity. Republicans tithe more but not all tithing goes to charity, much of it goes to administration costs of the church so your claim is murky at best. Church programs aren't social programs and can't reasonably substitute for them. America isn't "hated" worldwide; most people are indifferent to us and the ones I've talked to admire us.

That said, it's nice that your church is so charitable. Way to go.

re: America isn't "hated" worldwide; most people are indifferent to us and the ones I've talked to admire us

FYI

'Since Barack Obama entered office, the world's view of the United States has 'improved sharply,' according to a poll carried out by the BBC World Service.

Nearly 30,000 people in 28 countries were asked to rate countries on their positive impact upon the world. This year 46% of the respondents rated the US's influence as positive - the first time since 2005 that the survey returned more positive votes than negative for America'
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/19/worlds-opinion-of-us-has_n_542598.html

Karen: Christ told the woman caught in adultery. told her to go and sin no more. She did sin in adultery, but the men did also. that is why they all left, Christians are not against programs that help the poor ! the churches are the places that help more of the poor than the Gov. does.But Christ taught that it is not the job of His Church to help the community's poor , the church is to help those within that church first the widow and fatherless children, and to fund the Mission work within the church body. It is the responsibility of the local community to help the poor among them, even though the churches do alot of work concerning the poor .We are to give the Gopsel to all men , the Government and some people try hard to stop this great Commission given by Christ only to His Church. Karen I think you have been deceived in your understanding of the truth of God's Word . Karen Christians don't drop bombs on other people . there are no innocent people who call for your death according to their belief. Christ did teach that one should defend ones Nation against those who would want to take your freedoms away to worship God and Christ, Karen man has brought aLL THE WARS UPON HIMSELF . But God does give the believer the right to defend their faith and Nation . the bombing of the enemy should not make you not to go to Church to worship God , or is that your excuse to justify your own unbelief ?

Linda: the US only now ranks 1st in charitable donations and causes. Previous years, it never got higher than 5th. That's because we have so much more need for charity lately. (Third world countries like Nigeria, Liberia, Lao - they're high ranking in charitable donations, too.) And middle class Americans give up more to charity than upper income (that started after Reagan dropped taxes on upper income - apparently, tax deduction was the only thing those wealthy wanted from the donations; when their taxes dropped and they actually had more to give, they started giving less). Also - as one who's worked as fundraiser for charities, I can tell you first hand, without doubt, 100% fact - Republicans give *less* than others. *MUCH MUCH LESS* in fact. As for first response to disaster - what about our own? Hurricane Katrina, for example - took three days before Bush came, and all he did was fly over. Last Dem pres when there was a major hurricane in New Orleans was there - on the ground - same day - in hip boots walking through the water - helping.

@william clark: '...She did sin in adultery, but the men did also. that is why they all left...'

re: Can anybody enlighten me as to why "Christians" so often focus on sexuality [karen]

for me not much...hope it helped karen...if any, enlightenment in WC's statement...but moving on;

re: the churches are the places that help more of the poor than the Gov. does. [wc]

you really cant believe this so why make such statement...

"But Christ taught that it is not the job of His Church to help the community's poor"...HE/SHE did!! so how does one get from 'give all to the poor, etc' to Christ taught it not the church's job to help the poor...

if you believe the Bible is to be taken literally then could you, as part of your missionary work, provide the verses which say:

'Christ did teach that one should defend ones Nation against those who would want to take your freedoms away to worship God and Christ'

also would you literally interpret: 'render unto caesar things that are caesar's and unto God things that are God's'

hope this means we can obey (it's not a sin) our constitution and separate church and state...

Kaaren has some legitimate questions, and most of the responses made some sense even if some of the facts were a little questionable. However, I cannot make any sense at all out of William Clark's response. Is it just the bizarre punctuation and poorly educated syntax? No, I think it is the poorly educated theology. When did Jesus support war? If no Christians drop bombs, is William stating as fact that Geo W and all the soldiers are not Christian? And even if Jesus had given the go-ahead to wage war in self defense, Iraq and Afghanistan did not attack the USA and were absolutely no threat to our way of life.
What do other countries think of us? I think generally pretty positive, but I was on business trips to Switzerland three times during the Bush years, and the multinational professionals I was working and having dinner with were really critical of the US war against Iraq, which was based upon lies to try to win general approval in this country. George W. Bush was not respected, and even the GOP doesn't want to talk about him now. Too bad for us he pretended to be a born again Christian who sent young
Americans half way around the world to kill the people who live there and destroy their countries. Too bad for us he spent all our money, and then some. It will take a long time to recover from those very bad 8 years.

Karen, Christ told the woman caught in adultery , "To go and "sin" no more . Christ knew she had sinned and warned her not to do it again . Christ never excused her deed of adulltery, He forgave her at that moment, because all the men who brought her had done the same at some point , and the other question would have been . "Where was the man that was sinning with her in adultery "? he was not brought there either was he , ? Karen society is responsible for the poor among them the Bible even teaches that so did Christ, it is not the Church that is to do that , but it does in most cases. The church is to care for its own members who are widowed and those children who are fatherless because of death.
So you stopped going to church because of that ? sounds like an excuse to justify your unbelief . Its always easy to find an excuse to quit isn't it ?

Linda, lying to justify sending thousand of young Americans half-way around the world to kill the people who live there and destroy their country...and to have thousands of our own next generation of Americans die in the process for a bogus cause...not compassionate.

Nope, I'm dead serious. While my home was still in 8 feet of water, Bush just flew by.

I assume you're referring to the oil spill in the gulf; you're overlooking that the Coast Guard was on that one from the get-go. You're also overlooking that the private company that caused that fiasco was the one responsible for cleaning it up - which Obama made damn sure they did; when they didn't, he stepped in. (And if he had right from the start, my guess is you'd be complaining about him making taxpayers assume the costs for the mistake of a private company....)

Prove that your home was in 8feet of water. No proof, no link, no cred.

Would you like to the see the pictures? The insurance papers? The few remnants I was able to salvage? My lawsuit against CoE for its fraudulent construction of the levee that broke one mile due west of my house (it received ample funding for a new levee, then built a rinky-dink one instead of the one that was approved, and pocketed the money it saved)? Or how about the gravesite of the person who died there? Anytime you want to meet, I'll show it to you.

You make statement, you make claims, you attack anybody that disagrees with you. Then you demand prove.

Well buddy, you never provide proof of anything you say.

Prove what you say about this or any other matter or SHUT UP.

Pardon me? I have consistently offered backup of statements, using valid sources, too. On another thread, I've even offered many, many sources to challenge the statements you've made and never defended.

And, as I've already stated, I do have creditable source to my statements here - actual physical sources. And I'll offer anyone who reads this the opportunity to see the physical evidence, too.

EVERYONE: Provide me with contact information, and we can set up the time and place.

@ Reg regarding your public invitation.

I have no desire to meet you anywhere or anytime. Such an invitation is Unwanted and Unwelcome. Furthermore I have no desire to see any of your pictures.

The Patch community requires you to support the things that you say "In Public".

You show a degree of cowardice not often seen, particularly on the internet bob. Troll harder. A real troll would have at least said he'd meet reg somewhere and then just not show up.

I am supporting it "in public" (and oubluc and publuc, too, as you originally posted). I am publicly offering to provide my physical evidence to the public, as I have publicly announced.

As everyone here knows, what other method could I use to meet your request for proof? I could post links to articles with pictures of flooded homes - anyone can do that, though; that wouldn't be valid. To maintain the validity, then, I offer actual physical evidence.

I find your sudden requests to this old article, in challenge to a statement I made here over two weeks ago, just to be another method of argument. Not a good one, either, since you're apparently resorting to silly requests which you won't even honor when provided with respectful response.

Again, I leave my offer open to anyone.

No link, no cred.

I'm gonna die laughing if at the end of the day his whole troll is just a scam to steal your identity.

martin, bob is actually a displaced Nigerian prince and has $15M US dolars he needs to wire transfer two you bank accounts. Please be making to post a picture of your credeet cards and checks on photobucket for secure transfers.

it seems that's exactly why he's asking for that, too, Josch. He wants me to post my insurance papers (with all the personal info, including financial institution data) online; to show my home address online..... this guy's requests have me .... troubled. Add in the fact that he apparently has all day to sit around and post stuff on patches across the country, well....he's ID theft troll, maybe?

stanley: Give all to the poor was a statement to a man asking Christ how he could follow Christ. Christ told him to sell all that he had and give it to the poor and come and follow Him, of course the man could not sell his property and riches and give it all to the poor , because that was his idol and what he worshipped daily , his riches. so he left and went his way. Those type of people today would do the same as that man . They are called "unbelievers" . W e think because we call ourselves "Christians" that we are true believers in Christ yet we follow and live for the world and do the things of the World, we go to church on sunday , maybe on wednesday night also, we do for others at some point because it makes us feel good about ourselves. We think that God loves us because we take out of our day time to go and set in a church and sing modern day songs with loud music and that it somehow pleases God ! or maybe we think it is Glorfying God ...with our presents. When was the last time you ever heard your Pastor speak to you about your sins against God and your need of Repentance ? or would that offend you ?

I'm sorry you have that opinion, william. I do not believe that God has commanded us to hate the very creatures that He Himself created and placed upon this Earth.

I also don't believe God "hates," as you insist. God hates sin, yes, but not the sinner.

And no, I've never noticed who God condemns - no living being on this planet ever has. In fact, I regard anyone who makes such claims (to know who God condemns) to be quite distant from God, in some self-illusion of self-deity standing.

I will pray for your forgiveness, William.

and reg, in Psalms 5:5 the Lord says , "the foolish shall not stand in thy sight; Thou hatest all workers of iniquity, and in proverbs 6:16, the Lord also tells us what he hates , all of the following are people and the sins within them, these are the ones who are unrepentant, and will not change before a Just and Holy God. The lord was speaking about us loving one another as Believers in Him. he wasn't speaking of those out in the world, and are worldly and will not accdept the Words of God. We are to have no fellowship with the world and its darkness which are the people and children of satan. I know of no-where in scripture where God has commanded us to love those who are of the world, we are to speak to them of the Gospel of salvation in Christ , When the scripture speaks of "love thy neighbor as thyself. means we are to love our brothers and sisters in christ, these are our neighbor's not the ones of darkness who are of the world and an enemy of Christ , I see so much ignorance of the truth of scripture, mainly because one doesn't want to offend another , and pastor's have bought into this diversity thing which God also hates, be not deceived my friend. God does hate . and God will cast the sinner into the lake of fire along with his sins if they be unrepentant and no change of heart . Many have bought into this "God is Love" gospel, and has no other attributes. First he is Holy, second He is Just and must punish the sinner, thirdly He is Love, but only to His own. Amen

reg: it is apparent you do not read and study the Holy Bible .God's Word for all men. i gave you one scripture where God has condemned those who will not see the Kingdon of God.. so ! if they will not see the Kingdom of God . then it is very apparent they will be cast into the lake of Fire for their unbelief. 1 Cor. 6:6-9 reg are you one of these listed in that scripture ?

there you go again, wm., demonstrating my argument that God's word - written by men, mind you - is still so subject to consistent variations in interpretations by men. (Were that *not* the case, there wouldn't be so many different Christian churches, now would they?) It appears that you are trying to assume the role of God in your criticism of me, though, wm. Based on that do I ask you to *stop sending me messages*. I have no interest.

some of us were like that at one time, but ye are washed , but ye are sanctified,but ye are justified in the name of the Lord . amen for that truth. we are now set apart from the rest of the world, yes we are indeed special people of the Lord Now by His Grace. He has chosen some of us to be saved and some not to be saved. that is the way God does His will. He chooses whom He wills > amen.

reg doing that personal message routine again.

to william, my use of "personal messages" was in reference to those on this board. To you, baub, I was referring to your actual personal messages direct to me.

I believe yours were, yes.

Probably not "deleted", but just not posted. I've called you people monsters or posted inflammatory posts designed to make you guys lose your racist minds that haven't been approved. Deal with it.

God hasn't met william yet.